• Re: pros and cons

    From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 19:36:25 2025
    Hey Nightfox!

    On Wed, Dec 24 2025 12:25:11 -0600, you wrote:

    Yeah, I feel like both can be considered programming. There have
    been entire programs written in Python, for instances, which has traditionally been thought of as a scripting language. The lines
    are definitely blurred. But when it comes to things like writing
    Windows batch files or *NIX shell scripts, I do tend to call those 'scripting', since in those cases, I'm usually trying to automate
    something and it isn't compiled.

    Hmm. I just want to make things as clear as possible here.

    I'm NOT a programmer by any means.

    I can bash script better than a lot of people can program. I'M NOT A PROGRAMMER, and I respect the hell out of the people that can.

    Keep in mind bash scripting has more to do with changing directories, performing a command, and maybe even doing something else after the fact
    (NOT PROGRAMMING).

    There is a HUGE difference. You programmers can argue all you want. But,
    look at it at this angle: I'm a legit construction (Ironworker) foreman.
    I build shit that is used (as in your office buildings) and/or driven on (bridges), on a daily basis). I don't do a single fucking thing you guys
    do in your comfortable/uncomfortable chair at work.

    These days, my best part of work is proving the office folk wrong (that
    means engineers that have been going to school for however many years)

    I can bash script, just as good as i could probably do batch files. THAT
    is not programming.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm, because beating people up is illegal.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Accession on Wed Dec 24 21:01:11 2025
    Re: Re: pros and cons
    By: Accession to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 2025 07:36 pm

    But when it comes to things like writing Windows batch files or *NIX shell
    scripts, I do tend to call those 'scripting', since in those cases, I'm
    usually trying to automate something and it isn't compiled.

    I can bash script, just as good as i could probably do batch files. THAT is not programming.

    I think that's sort of basically what I said? As I said above, I tend to call that scripting.

    There is a HUGE difference. You programmers can argue all you want. But, look at it at this angle: I'm a legit construction (Ironworker) foreman. I build shit that is used (as in your office buildings) and/or driven on (bridges), on a daily basis). I don't do a single fucking thing you guys do in your comfortable/uncomfortable chair at work.

    What's with the angry tone here?

    Merry Christmas, man..

    Nightfox

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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Lonewolf on Wed Dec 24 22:48:45 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Lonewolf to Denn on Wed Dec 24 2025 11:27 am

    I agree, both achieve the same result, get the machine to do what you want it to. The only difference really is the speed of execution and whether or not you need to worry about memory management. Today, the syntax between many different languages is so similiar, I can quickly convert code between C/C#/JavaScript with much thought.
    need to worry about memory management. Today's language syntax so similiar, you can easily convert code between C/C#/JavaScript without much effort.

    I have done a lot of HTML coding, that I would say is definatley not programming.



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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 23:12:30 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Wed Dec 24 2025 10:25 am

    I would say both are considered programming.

    Yeah, I feel like both can be considered programming. There have been entire programs written in Python, for instances, which has traditionally been thought of as a scripting language. The lines are definitely blurred. But when it comes to things like writing Windows batch files or *NIX shell scripts, I do tend to call those 'scripting', since in those cases, I'm usually trying to automate something and it isn't compiled.

    Why Batch feels different

    Batch files are essentially just a list of commands you would normally type into the Command Prompt, saved into a file so you don't have to type them twice.

    When you added variables and logic, you were actually using the fundamental building blocks of computer science:

    Sequence: Doing things in order.

    Selection: Using IF statements to make decisions.

    Iteration: Using FOR loops to repeat tasks.

    Even if it doesn't feel like "programming" because you weren't building a GUI or a mobile app, you were effectively performing systems administration. You were the arcitect of a workflow, which is a massive step up from being a casual user.
    Definatley not high level programming, but could still be considered a form of programming.

    ... White dwarf seeks red giant for binary relationship.

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Thu Dec 25 09:17:34 2025
    Hey Nightfox!

    On Wed, 24 Dec 2025 21:01:10 -0800, you wrote:

    What's with the angry tone here?

    I don't even know, to be honest. Maybe because I had to work on Christmas Eve. ;)

    Merry Christmas, man..

    Merry Christmas to you too.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Denn on Thu Dec 25 07:35:00 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Denn to Lonewolf on Wed Dec 24 2025 10:48 pm


    I have done a lot of HTML coding, that I would say is definatley not programming.

    When people started hand-hacking HTML and referring to it as "coding" (myself included, I proudly sported a "Made with Notepad" badge on my web site) the C programmers I knew would scoffingly state that HTML is a MARKUP LANGUAGE, not CODE.

    I'm trying to think of which party back in the 90s that happened at, but the C programmers I know didn't get invited to parties.

    Scoffingly. If that's not a word, it should be.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Denn on Thu Dec 25 07:37:52 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 2025 11:12 pm

    Why Batch feels different

    Batch files are essentially just a list of commands you would normally type into the Command Prompt, saved into a file so you don't have to type them twice.

    When you added variables and logic, you were actually using the fundamental building blocks of computer science:

    I'd call batch structured programming, compared to something like EXPECT, which I'd forgotten about. EXPECT was like a scripting language for the command line, looking for output from programs and entering input - you could use it to script a login to a PPP account for example. That feels like the "batch file" description you describe.

    I don't think it had branching, although it might have - but it wasn't procedural.

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  • From phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Codefenix on Thu Dec 25 13:46:34 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Codefenix to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 2025 08:44 am

    Someone once a long time ago explained to me that scripting was not consider "true programming" since there was little to no consideration for lower-leve

    I think long ago there was certainly a distinction, and you could probably notice a difference in results at the time.. but I'd say ever since it became 'coding', the term 'scripting' is obsolete and almost redundant, because it's all just considered programming now.

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  • From phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Accession on Thu Dec 25 13:50:26 2025
    Re: Re: pros and cons
    By: Accession to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 2025 07:36 pm

    performing a command, and maybe even doing something else after the fact (NOT PROGRAMMING).

    Like it or not, when you're scripting you're laying out a set of instructions for the computer to perform, in whatever language, and that's pretty much programming (these days).

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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Dec 25 15:25:35 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Denn on Thu Dec 25 2025 07:37 am

    I'd call batch structured programming, compared to something like EXPECT, which I'd forgotten about. EXPECT was like a scripting language for the command line, looking for output from programs and entering input - you could use it to script a login to a PPP account for example. That feels like the "batch file" description you describe.

    I would definatly say it's low level programming, easy enough for most to understand and do.
    But I would say back in the good ol' DOS days it was very useful.

    ... Toto, I don't think we're in DOS anymore...

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  • From Deuce@VERT/BBSDEV to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Dec 26 07:22:07 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Denn on Thu Dec 25 2025 07:35 am

    the C programmers I knew would scoffingly state that HTML is a MARKUP LANGUAGE, not CODE.

    "Code" is just how something is expressed. ASCII is a code for example (the C stands for Code).

    But yeah, HTML is not programming, but JS absolutely is, and at least some uses of CSS are.
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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to phigan on Fri Dec 26 07:30:10 2025
    Hey phigan!

    On Thu, 25 Dec 2025 13:50:26 -0700, you wrote:

    Like it or not, when you're scripting you're laying out a set of instructions for the computer to perform, in whatever language, and
    that's pretty much programming (these days).

    I don't think I could ever call myself a programmer because I can write a bash script that changes directories a few times and runs already compiled programs, simply because I don't want to do it manually every time. Automation, maybe. Programming, not so much.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
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  • From phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Accession on Fri Dec 26 19:56:38 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Accession to phigan on Fri Dec 26 2025 07:30 am

    I don't think I could ever call myself a programmer because I can write a ba script that changes directories a few times and runs already compiled progra

    If you were to paint a picture, does that automatically make you a painter or an artist?

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to phigan on Sat Dec 27 07:58:24 2025
    Hey Phigan!

    On Fri, Dec 26 2025 20:56:38 -0600, you wrote:

    If you were to paint a picture, does that automatically make you a
    painter or an artist?

    No, and I think that was kind of the whole point I was alluding to in
    this conversation?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm, because beating people up is illegal.
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  • From phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Accession on Sat Dec 27 11:26:48 2025
    Re: Re: pros and cons
    By: Accession to phigan on Sat Dec 27 2025 07:58 am

    If you were to paint a picture, does that automatically make you a
    painter or an artist?

    No, and I think that was kind of the whole point I was alluding to in
    this conversation?

    You were saying it's not programming because you wouldn't call yourself a programmer. Just because you write a program doesn't mean you're a programmer much like just because you paint a picture doesn't mean you're an artist/painter.

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to phigan on Sat Dec 27 13:16:30 2025
    Hey phigan!

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2025 11:26:48 -0700, you wrote:

    You were saying it's not programming because you wouldn't call yourself
    a programmer. Just because you write a program doesn't mean you're a programmer much like just because you paint a picture doesn't mean
    you're an artist/painter.

    If you're trying to get absolutely technical here, I said that a bash (or batch) script that changes directories a few times and runs already compiled programs, isn't programming.. and in my opinion, can't be ligitimately called a "program," either. So, I never really wrote a program in the first place, in order to call myself a programmer.

    Therefore, your comparison is a wee bit off. Take it how you want, and if you want to compare apples to *broccoli, that's up to you.

    * Yes, I used broccoli instead of oranges to avoid you comparing the two as both being fruit.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
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  • From phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Accession on Sun Dec 28 00:08:39 2025
    Re: pros and cons
    By: Accession to phigan on Sat Dec 27 2025 01:16 pm

    * Yes, I used broccoli instead of oranges to avoid you comparing the two as both being fruit.

    A program is a set of instructions and a bash script is a set of instructions. That makes em a bit closer to eachother than apples and broccoli ;),

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  • From Morningstarr@VERT to Gamgee on Thu Jan 1 12:49:14 2026
    You do not need to write a single line of JS to customize your
    Synchronet BBS. Read that a few more times until you understand it.

    You *CAN* write custom JS to do certain things, or modify existing JS
    (which doesn't usually require much JS knowledge), but you don't *have*
    to. That's the point.

    Now, since you don't intend to run a BBS anyway, why don't you stop your trolling and ..... go away.

    Dude I'm not trolling, that's not my intention. That was just a rude
    comment, very immature and disrespectful. I'm not going anywhere, I'm on
    here for fun and maybe make a few friends.

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  • From Morningstarr@VERT to Nightfox on Thu Jan 1 12:57:01 2026
    Re: Re: pros and cons
    By: Accession to Nightfox on Wed Dec 24 2025 07:36 pm

    I think that's sort of basically what I said? As I said above, I tend to call that scripting.

    What's with the angry tone here?

    I don't know why bud, but there are some mean, angry, rude people on here. Let's say someone new to bbsing wants to learn, try it out and get involved. They post a message on here and get ripped to shreds. They're going to leave. People like that run newcomers off and it's not cool at all. I have seen it
    on here way too much.
    Take care of yourself bud, have a good one!

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